Where is Everybody? The Fermi Paradox

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Where is Everybody? The Fermi Paradox

Postby Don't Blink » 05 Sep 14, 7:55 pm

Where is Everybody? The Fermi Paradox
http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/05/fermi-paradox.html
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Re: Where is Everybody? The Fermi Paradox

Postby Skunch » 25 Sep 14, 2:44 pm

I'm there...
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Re: Where is Everybody? The Fermi Paradox

Postby Jack Flash » 26 Sep 14, 8:01 am

..and here

All part of the same holographic simulation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principle
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Re: Where is Everybody? The Fermi Paradox

Postby mugley » 27 Sep 14, 5:05 am

cliff notes version please?
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Re: Where is Everybody? The Fermi Paradox

Postby Don't Blink » 27 Sep 14, 10:11 am

http://www.nature.com/news/simulations- ... am-1.14328


The basic principle revolves around concept of entropy, which can be slightly more difficult to get a grasp on. Entropy can be described in two different ways.

One way to think of entropy is as the amount of "disorderliness" of a closed system. This closed system could be a deck full of cards or it could be a box full of molecules. If the cards are nicely ordered from Ace to King and from Hearts through Spades, the system is very ordered and as such has a low "entropy". If the molecules in the box are all sitting still in one of the corners, they are ordered and the system has a low entropy. If you shuffle your deck multiple times, the cards become disordered and the entropy in the system increases. If the molecules in the box are all wildly mixed and moving in all sorts of directions, the system is very disordered and the entropy is high.

The second way to think about entropy is as "the amount of hidden information" in a closed system. If you look at the box full of molecules, it's practically impossible to keep track of every single molecule's position and momentum because there are just too many of them. Instead we might choose to look at the box as a whole, ignoring the information of every single molecule and instead describe the system with some overall, average information such as "temperature", "pressure" and "density". By doing this, we don't have to keep track of every single molecule in the box, but it also means we "hide some information" about the system. The more information hidden, the higher the entropy.

Now, as another example, imagine instead we have a bath tub full of hot water. The entropy of this hot water is high because we don't look at each water molecule in the bath tub, but we just say "the average temperature of the water is 60 degrees Celsius". A lot of information about the system is thus hidden from us. How much information? An amount proportional to the volume of the bath tube. Why the volume? Because it's logical that the amount of hidden information about all the molecules is proportional to the amount of molecules in the bath tub and the amount of molecules in the bath tub is proportional to the volume. If you want to retrieve this hidden information, you have to look inside the bath tub and measure each single molecule carefully.

Stephen Hawking and Jacob Bekenstein have shown that black holes must have entropy. The question now is, how much entropy does a black hole have? A common answer may be that the amount of entropy in a black hole is proportional to its volume by the same argument as the bath tub. This is wrong. The amount of entropy, e.g. hidden information, contained in a black hole is proportional to its surface area. Why is this such a big deal? This is because if you want to retrieve information about what's happening inside the black hole, you only need to look at its surface. Not through its surface, but at its surface. In other words, the inside of a black hole is being "projected" onto its surface like a hologram. Black holes are the densest things in the universe and as such contain the most amount of entropy in least space. Hence, if the maximum amount of information is being projected from its inside to its surface, our universe may be just something similar.


In other words, if everything that's happening inside the Black Hole all of that data, is contained on the horizon of the hole. We have a holographic statement, that the physics inside the Black Hole should be described by some physics on the event horizon.

It's then a short jump to say that if it's true for a Black Hole, objects which have the maximum possible entropy, because they've got the maximum amount of stuff in them, then it should be true for everything else too. That given a region of space, we should be able to draw a big shape around it, and figure out everything about the inside of the shape just by examining the boundary.

Theoretical physicists have pursued this much further and found concrete examples of something known as the AdS/CFT correspondence, which is a theory exactly of this type. With gravity in the volume, and a special quantum field theory describing exactly the same physics, but in one less dimension, and located on the boundary of the space.

The entropy of something tells us how much info there is inside it. Black Holes are maximum entropy objects, and so contain maximum information. A Black Holes entropy is proportional to it's surface area, not it's volume. So the information a Black Hole contains can be though of as living on it's surface. So a Black Hole is like a hologram. If Black Holes are holograms, then we are too!
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Re: Where is Everybody? The Fermi Paradox

Postby Jack Flash » 28 Sep 14, 9:11 am

In a year or so when the results from experiments are in what if the results indicate that we are in a hologram - what then? :?
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Re: Where is Everybody? The Fermi Paradox

Postby mugley » 28 Sep 14, 9:22 am

Jack Flash wrote:In a year or so when the results from experiments are in what if the results indicate that we are in a hologram - what then? :?

then I look for the reboot switch

I've got this bookmarked, just can't seem to concentrate on it right now for some reason

The first line of DB's cliff notes for me, (thx btw) reminded me of this

http://kombuchat.com/according-to-scien ... ter-death/

Your consciousness is your current state of being.

It’s your awareness of what’s around you, it’s the understanding that you’re alive, breathing, functioning, living, growing, and existing.

But when you die, that consciousness does not simply disappear.

After all, the Law of the Conservation of Energy states that energy is neither created or destroyed in a closed system.

Essentially, when you die–you simply change form.

A new understanding of consciousness is changing the way we previously thought about life and death.
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Re: Where is Everybody? The Fermi Paradox

Postby Jack Flash » 28 Sep 14, 9:46 am

I agree, it is a result that if true, will cause a lot of soul searching.

What if we are bit players in a computer simulation?
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Re: Where is Everybody? The Fermi Paradox

Postby Angie G » 28 Sep 14, 4:19 pm

Read this and the links Drew sent but still I cant grasp how if everything feels real we could be in a hologram.
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